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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
Today we removed the mechanical fan from our 2006 KJ CRD for the remainder of the winter (no towing with this vehicle for the next 3 months). The engine coolant temp is running 1-2 F higher than before on the highway and 3-5 F higher in city traffic. The viscous fan parasitic losses may amount to a 1-1.5 mpg gain, this will be validated during the next couple of weeks. We also noticed that the air temps after the intercooler are about 10 F higher, this is good news. We are not worried about overheating in the winter if the vehicle is not going to be used for trailer towing. The electric fan will turn on if the coolant temps ever reach 203 F, which is highly unlikely during the cooler months. Typically the coolant temps hover right around the thermostat opening temp of 176 F with the mechanical fan off.
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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Cool. Well, I guess it should be "Warm". How hard is it to remove the fan?


2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
WXman
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Joined: 29/01/2010 14:53:49
Messages: 28
Location: Kentucky
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Very interesting. In the testing I've done (on a 4.7L V8 engine), the #1 contributor to better fuel economy was driving style. The #2 contributor was when I removed the mechanical fan and installed an electric fan kit (Flex-A-Lite 180). Any drag and load you can remove from the engine just helps all the more. I ended up being able to pull a tank at 15.8 MPG (50/50 city/highway) in the Summer time after that mod which is very impressive for a 5,600 lb. Dodge with the V8. I have been wondering what the improvement would be doing a similar mod to the CRD. I would guess at least 2 MPG which would be significant.

With the e-fan I never overheated even in 100 degree weather towing a trailer. The benefit of better fuel economy and a slight increase in power was well worth it, as well the fact that the e-fan ran MUCH quieter. Please keep us posted on your findings with the CRD minus clutch-driven fan.

'05 Liberty CRD Limited
Factory Off-Road Package
Daystar spacer lift/Conduit washers
Skyjacker H7088s in the rear
Renegade wheels
255/70-16 General Grabber AT2s
GDE HOT Tune
EHM
No clutch fan
"Euro" TC
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
The job is not too bad with the proper tools, it took about 15 minutes. First, remove the plastic engine cover. Use a large crescent wrench (22-24") for the fan hex head and orient it upright in line with the engine lift bracket. Hit the wrench in the counter clockwise direction with a small sledge. This is where the project time can increase greatly if the fan is frozen to the hub. It may help to spray with penetrating oil and let it sit a while. Once loose, spin the fan until it falls off the hub. It will rest in the shroud, now the shroud must be raised about 4-6 inches for the fan to be removed. There are two 10mm bolts that hold the fan shroud in place located one on each side a few inches down, remove these. Then loosen the A/C line and coolant line from the top of shroud and wrap around the top of engine. The shrould may be clipped to the top of the radiator and pryed up and out. NOTE the shroud hooks in at the bottom on each side into a retention slot when re-installing. Pull up the shroud enough to remove the fan. Tape the exposed threads on the fan support hub with electrical tape or duct tape. Then put everything back together. We broke the clips to the AC lines and drilled a second hole where the connectors are to use a zip tie to hold the line in place.

It is hard to tell if it is any warmer as a few days ago the first three control positions for fan speed died. All we have is high speed which is just too much. Need to order a new control unit tomorrow after checking the fuses...
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flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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High fan only, usually means the resistor behind the glove compartment has failed.

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
We will check that out this morning, is there an easy way to test if it is failed?
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flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
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GreenDieselEngineering wrote:We will check that out this morning, is there an easy way to test if it is failed?


Never bothered to test it, just a well known problem. Your blower motor runs, and you can run the fan on one speed, not likely that all the other speeds on the fan control all failed at the same time, and high didn't?

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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With the fan removed, does the shroud need to be reinsalled, other than to hold the AC and coolant line?

I am going to give the inline tstat a try. I will be using two diecast straight neck sb chevy tsat housings back to back (clam shell) for a low cost (+/- $30) unit. I'll have to machine a land into one of them to accept the 195* tstat. I'm trying to figure a way to introduce a small pressure gauge between the two stats to read pressure in the hose when temp is between 175* and 195*.
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
We never removed the shroud, just lifted it a few inches and then put back in its original position. More parts might need to be removed to get the entire shroud out of the vehicle.
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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GreenDieselEngineering wrote:Use a large crescent wrench (22-24") for the fan hex head and orient it upright in line with the engine lift bracket. Hit the wrench in the counter clockwise direction with a small sledge. This is where the project time can increase greatly if the fan is frozen to the hub.


Your tool is longer than mine.

Mine seems to be frozen to the hub. Tried some anti seize but no help yet. Any suggestions on how to keep things from turning when I whack it?

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
Funny...

Try wedging a screwdriver into one of the holes on the fan hub to get it to bind a bit. This might give you enough leverage to free the fan when hitting the crescent wrench.
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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I'm fairly confident that the previous owner of this liberty lived by the sea, commuted to work through the sea, and then washed the vehicle with sea water upon returning home at night.

I've bent up a tire iron the first time I rotated tires due to lug nuts being frozen, ripped the heads off of two of the skid plate bolts and had to drill out the bolts so I could change the front diff fluid, and had to re-tap the frame holes to bolt the tow hitch I added into place. Grrrrrrr.

So I bought a longer tool, have a metal pipe extension on it as well so it's now 32 inches long, using a screw driver to keep the bolt from free spinning and have been whacking away for quite some time over the last several nights while continuously soaking with anti seize. No dice.

So my question is: Can I heat that bolt without damaging the fan coupling or anything else in that area? Was thinking propane torch or what's worked for me in the past on really stubborn stuff is to use my stick welder and just weld on the bolt to apply intense localized heat (and knock off the material with a hammer afterwards). That's worked for times when the propane wasn't hot enough.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
Applying heat on bolt should not cause an issue. You have a very stubborn vehicle!
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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After bending a couple screwdrivers and numerous heating/soaking cycles I red-necked a home made adjustable spanner wrench to fit the two holes in the pulley to keep it from rotating. That did the trick. You were not joking about how that step could add some serious time to the project . . .

I got the fan out by sliding the shroud up, but it wasn't a real smooth operation -- lots of interference. To get the fan out I had to raise the shroud high enough so that the side support structures where the screws go for attachment caused some pretty good rubbing with the radiator hose on the passenger side and another hose of the driver side. Did you find a better way to finesse the shroud up, and fan out, without rubbing on those areas?

Initial EVIC based results shows some good upward trends in mpg results.


2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
The tabs on the shroud did rub against the radiator hose and the CAC hose. We just bent the hoses out of the way as much as possible. The spanner wrench is a very good idea! It will be much easier the second time around.
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