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WXman
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Joined: 29/01/2010 14:53:49
Messages: 28
Location: Kentucky
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GDE...any updates on running without the clutch fan?? Do you think the electric fan alone would be OK in warm weather driving?

'05 Liberty CRD Limited
Factory Off-Road Package
Daystar spacer lift/Conduit washers
Skyjacker H7088s in the rear
Renegade wheels
255/70-16 General Grabber AT2s
GDE HOT Tune
EHM
No clutch fan
"Euro" TC
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
flman,

Thanks for the insight on the blower motor resistor. We installed a new one today ($24) and it fixed the problem. One more annoyance we do not have to deal with.
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
We just checked our fuel economy with the mechanical fan removed. It increased the mpg by 0.5. Not a lot, but we were strictly doing city cycles and with all the snow lately it is hard to get an apples to apples comparison. The plan is to leave it off through spring and summer until we notice any potential for increasing coolant temps beyond the normal range. For sure no towing with this vehicle.
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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Just curious how much resistance there should be when holding the hub in place and spinning the fan blades. Mine seems to have significant drag when doing this, but I have nothing to compare it to.

Removing/installing the fan would sure be a lot easier/faster if the top portion of the shroud could be simply clipped/snapped in place and slid out to allow for the fan to be removed/installed as opposed to all the fussing around of sliding up the entire shroud structure.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
The resistance is fair and will reduce somewhat after a few rotations of the fan. There is an internal weep hole inside the viscous coupling for fluid to drain out when the fan clutch is not engaged. After the fluid drains, the resistance to move the fan drops significantly. Cold fluid during the winter increases the resistance and the pump out time. Viscous couplings are a bit old tech. If the engine is shut off with the weep hole on the bottom the fluid drains out faster and if it is on top it tends to hold the fluid and stay partially engaged for a little longer after the engine is started. Some deisgns have more than one weep hole, but this one (we believe) does not.

A two piece fan shrould designed for service access...that might cut into corporate profits if the vehicle were easy to work on. Ha Ha
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SVO Ryan
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Joined: 20/07/2009 01:07:28
Messages: 10
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FWIW, I just posted some pics of my thermostat I replaced this past weekend here:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50625

Ryan
2005 Liberty CRD
GDE Tune//TransGo Shift Kit//PML Deep Pan//MBRP Exhaust//LoTek Dual Gauge Pod//ProSport Tranny Temp and Boost Gauges
1986 Mustang SVO
Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Ryan, thanks for the pics. It's hard to tell, but possibly there may be two thermostats inside the housing? The main and a smaller one for cabin etc. I still would like to get my hands on one and break it apart.

So get this, I installed the inline 195* t-stat in the upper radiator hose; and the temperature gauge went DOWN! It always ran one mark less than 12 o'clock, now it is 1 and 1/2 mark below. Everything seems to operate OK, but I got a decrease instead of an increase in temp. I can only think that I drilled too many holes in the t-stat flange. I drilled four 1/8 inch holes to allow some by-pass and to feed hot coolant to the t-stat. But if it was by-passing too much coolant, then the 195* stat should be ineffective, but why the lower temp? Maybe the pressure is over coming the spring, but why the lower temp? Is it because coolant is in the radiator longer due to decreased flow?

Also, I pulled the mechanical fan. BTW, once the shroud is lifted high enough to remove the fan, the shroud will come out; at least on my 05 model it did.

So now I am befuddled. I want a higher engine operating temperature, but don't know where to go from here.
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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GDE,

Does the ECU do anything to limit peak combustion temperature, say for instance, vary BOI or boost? I wonder if I am just beating my head against the wall.

Thanks for the help.
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
Dave,

The ECU does have controls to limit the combustion temperatures, but these are only active when the exhaust temps approach 1200 F. This typically only occurs if pulling a fully loaded trailer in 100+ F weather. The boost and BOI along with some fuel limitations are all utilized to keep the combustion temps within goal. However, none of these are active at lower coolant temps where your vehicle seems to be running.
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Thanks GDE,

I picked up another stat and will try drilling just one 1/8" hole, and install it tomorrow.

Once I get my mods done, I'll give you a call to set up an appointment for the flash. Does the no limit Ecotune offer any efficiency advantage over the regular Ecotune? I haven't decided if I want to change out the TC.

Dave
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 353
Location: Southeast Michigan
The full torque ECO tune would have some efficiency advantages when pulling loads. It will be easier to stay in lock-up and have good acceleration at the same time. In normal city driving the difference is zero. You can wait for the TC decision until after the tune, if the shudder is not too bad you can drive around it for thousands of miles while deciding on the upgrade.
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flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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Dave wrote:Thanks GDE,

I picked up another stat and will try drilling just one 1/8" hole, and install it tomorrow.

Once I get my mods done, I'll give you a call to set up an appointment for the flash. Does the no limit Ecotune offer any efficiency advantage over the regular Ecotune? I haven't decided if I want to change out the TC.

Dave


I will be watching to see how this goes for you? I would think the inline tstat is causing more heat at the OE tstat, causing it to open more then usual? Why did you have to drill all those holes? Does the tstat really seal itself that tight, that it would not be able to allow leakage?

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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I think you are right. The t-stat fits pretty tight in the housing but is not sealed. I reinstalled, with just one 3/32 inch hole. The tempererature gauge is back to reading normal. When I work the engine, I can get the gauge to the half way mark. My goal was for a tick or two past half way. I am going to run it for a while and see what happens in warmer weather. Obviously the T-stat didn't need any holes, and maybe a tighter seal.
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flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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Take a look at this thread

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50940

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Thanks for the link. I would like to post on that forum, but I'm outside, looking in. I forgot my user name and password and can't create a new one because my email address is "already in use". And, I can't get any response from the moderator...oh well.

Ultimately, I think the OEM tstat mod would be the best way to go. My $30 mod seems to be working, and I'm sure I'm getting a significant mpg increase. I don't know how much yet due to little travel and too many variables. I will be taking a trip to my cottage (300 mile round trip) next week, which will be good for data.

Thanks again.
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