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Forum Index » New Mopar Torque Converter
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
Last week we installed two of the recently released Mopar torque converters with part number 68037142AA. This unit has a higher capacity lock-up clutch in order to eliminate any potential shudder from the vehicle. We installed one unit into a 2005 and the other in a 2006 KJ CRD.

We have tested the converter without pulling a trailer using both the ECO tune and HOT tune. The converter is a marked improvement over stock and we were not able to initiate any shudder with the ECO tune or HOT tune. We tried simulating a trailer load by modulating the brakes to hold 1700rpm in 3rd gear lock-up and even with full fueling the converter would not shudder. This proceedure was repeated at 50 rpm increments up to 2300 rpm and everything functioned well.

The plan is to complete trailer tow testing by next week and provide more data on the forum when complete. So far we are very pleased with the converter!
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This is great news! Are you guys using a "shift kit" or other add-ons with the new torque converter?

GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
The transmissions in both vehicles are stock besides the torque converter. We have spoken with a few customers that have shift kits and the effects seem varied. We may try one to see what benefits are realized. Not sure how much effect a kit will have since the diesel is a slow revver compared with a gas engine. Does anyone have a shift kit with our tune that could weigh in?
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Ripster
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Joined: 19/07/2009 08:05:49
Messages: 15
Location: UP of Michigan
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I have the shift kit, but without the small resistor installed. With the resistor, hard shift from 2nd to 3rd at about 20
with out the resistor, smooth shifting. Still smooth shifting with the GDE tune.

2005 Silver Limited CRD
GDE Eco Tune
PML Differential Cover/Crankcase Mod
Tal & Hadas Grill Guard/TransGo Shift Kit
V-6 AirBox/Lunar Boost & EGT
Lund Cold Weather Grill Insert
Cat 2 Filter, Cummins Lift Pump
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
At this time we have put about 1500 miles on one of the European converters and no issues to report. The trailer towing was uneventful, typically a good thing with us! No shudder present, however the driveline vibration can be a bit higher due to allowing higher torque in lock-up conditions. The energy amplitude transmitted through the powertrain mount system is higher, but in the end it is a Jeep. We prefer capability over refinement in ride quality from an NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) standpoint. The flogging will continue!
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bigmaho1

Joined: 16/08/2009 09:43:45
Messages: 20
Location: Mt Kisco, NY
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Thanks for testing the new converter! One quick question. Can any decent mechanic install it? How long should it take?
Thanks,
Billy

2006 CRD w/ Eco Tune, TC tune, new modified fuel filter/water separator and new Mopar TC
2006 CRD Ltd Eco-tune.
Jeep Patriot (to keep the kids away from my diesel
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
We are still going strong with the new torque converter offered through Mopar. It is a marked improvement over the stock units.

We have been testing it with our stage II turbo kit and the power delivery is phenomenal with the transmission in lock-up. At this point we are recommending the converter to all CRD owners that want to rid themselves of "shudder". It makes us shudder just thinking about failing a stock converter pulling a trailer up a mountain! It is well worth the cost to upgrade.
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warp2diesel

Joined: 21/07/2009 14:42:09
Messages: 2
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Do you recommend replacing the Old Pump and seal plate like Suncoast does?

I ran your part number and MPA has it: http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getMultiSearchItems&siteid=214583&items=10

image

Have the pump number?
crdmiller

Joined: 22/10/2009 00:40:12
Messages: 2
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Did you (gde) have tc shudder with the eco, hot or turbo tune, in the first place?
You never specifically mentioned that the euro tc gets rid of existing shudder, however you did imply it.

I currently have massive amounts of shudder, with IMII. (you folks are obviously putting a ton more work into the crd than IM if only you were around then)
I have high interest in a aftermarket tc, but not necessarily one that has the stock stall speed/k-factor. We make more tq, we need a different tc. According to your numbers (turbo) a 1000-1200 rpm stall would not be unreasonable.
And i also have a inherent mistrust of mopar tc's, for obvious reasons.

Take it easy.
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
crdmiller,

We did our best to prevent shudder initiation with the ECO tune by limiting the amount of torque available between 1650-2100 rpm. We were not able to get shudder even when pulling a trailer, the transmission would hit the 'unlock' region before the shudder started. This was accomplished with the F37 traditional damper converter. The ECO tune has not eliminated all shudder in every customers vehicle. There is just too much variability in the amount of torque the stock converter can safely handle and if you already have shudder the ECO tune will most likely still produce enough torque to cause shudder, there is no fix for a weak TC. The HOT tune and turbo kit both cause massive amounts of shudder with stock converters...this is the main reason we opted to update both our vehicles with the new Mopar unit.

It might be nice to experiment with different k-factors, but the Mopar unit is not very far off base, as the stall speed changes so does the multiplication factor. The k-factor is a trade off for fuel economy (less slip) in light load driving and having the rpm in the best band during heavy load driving. Keep in mind, the new Mopar unit is used on all the new Jeep diesel products sold overseas and these engines have more power. The best part of the new converter is the higher spring capacity in the lock-up clutch as this is the problem source with the current TC in the KJ. We understand your concern and it is rightly based, but the new TC is a big step in the right direction.

Best of luck!

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what's the stall speed on the new TC?
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
It is a 150k factor converter based on our information. Not sure what that equates for the stall speed, but it is the same as production.
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This is excellent news, thanks a lot.

I really appreciate your reply, and your honesty.
MrMopar64

Joined: 07/07/2009 08:09:33
Messages: 2
Location: Southeast Michigan
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Torque converter "K" factor is the relationship between the stall speed and the engine torque at that stall speed. Of course, the general rule of thumb says that for a given torque converter, and engine making more torque will exhibit a slightly higher stall speed.

The relationship is: K factor = (stall speed) / (sqrt of torque at stall RPM)

For the factory tune with a K factor of 150, solving for stall speed we get: (150) * (sqrt{283 @ 2000-2600}) = 2500rpm

With the GDE Hot tune, we can guestimate that the engine is about 330lb-ft at the same RPM range. This gives us a theoretical stall speed of: (150) * (sqrt{330}) = 2725rpm

Hopefully this is insightful.
bigmaho1

Joined: 16/08/2009 09:43:45
Messages: 20
Location: Mt Kisco, NY
Offline
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:At this time we have put about 1500 miles on one of the European converters and no issues to report. The trailer towing was uneventful, typically a good thing with us! No shudder present, however the driveline vibration can be a bit higher due to allowing higher torque in lock-up conditions. The energy amplitude transmitted through the powertrain mount system is higher, but in the end it is a Jeep. We prefer capability over refinement in ride quality from an NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) standpoint. The flogging will continue!


Hi Guys,
Installed my new Mopar TC last week. I am noticing a lot more vibration, especially when under load between 45 and 65 mph. Does this sound like what you are describing? I'm running the eco tune. lol, the good news is I'll never fall asleep at the wheel

2006 CRD w/ Eco Tune, TC tune, new modified fuel filter/water separator and new Mopar TC
2006 CRD Ltd Eco-tune.
Jeep Patriot (to keep the kids away from my diesel
 
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