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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Hi all, I'm new to the forum and have questions for GDE.

First, is it your opinion that an increase in the engine operating temp. will improve combustion efficiency? I am contemplating changing to a 195 degree thermostat. I am interested in the ecotune, and am wondering if the thermostat change would or would not be recomended, and if so would the parameters of the tune need to be changed, or could they be changed to gain even more advantge in mpg?

Second, I am in West Michigan. Can I bring the jeep to you for the tune? I would love to have it dyno'd.

The jeep is a 2005. It has the exhaust opened up and a K&N air filter. Sadly, that did not make much of an improvement, probably because the ECM compensates. I physically blocked the EGR tube from the valve to intake for about a 1 mpg gain. That solved the manifold temp/pressure sensor from constantly clogging/failing. Then when unpluging the air control valve, I got another 2 mpg and a noticeable increase in response/driveability. I am currently getting 30 mpg hwy and peak at 33 mpg @ 60 mph on summer fuel (evic data). I am not necessarily looking for more power because I am not racing it. However, any increase won't be complained about. he he. The tranny did self destruct (shudder) and the dealership replaced the torque converter, pump and charge cooler. I'm sure it got derated as well. I am looking for advice regarding any mpg increase that you can supply.

Thanks for all that you do for us CRD fans.
Dave
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
The higher temp thermostat will help combustion efficiency a bit and it helps to reduce some frictional losses slightly. It also helps with cabin heat in the winter. Most all new diesel engines have thermostats that start opening at 90 C, the KJ starts at 80 C. In 2008 all the new VM engines in Europe came from the factory with 90 C thermostats. Too bad the design changed, so they are not interchangeable with the KJ. The tune will work the same regardless of which thermostat you use.

For sure you can drive in for a tune, we would just need to set-up a time and place. You may want to check your fuel economy with some hand calculations as the EVID tends to be biased to the high side. Your vehicle sounds like it is getting decent fuel economy at the mement, but a tune will just add on top of that.
Thanks,
GDE
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Went to look for a thermostat. Guess I should have researched that before posting, eh? Well, I'm not yet done with the desire to raise engine temp.

Thanks for the reply.
Dave
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Does anyone have an old/failed thermostat and willing to sell it on the cheap. I want to attempt breaching the crimp and see what is inside. I am looking at the posibility of a remote thermostat to increase operating temperature to 195-200*F.

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common_problems/HGF_pages/cooling_system_modifications.htm

http://web.tiscali.it/elise_s1/

Thanks,
Dave
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WXman
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Joined: 29/01/2010 14:53:49
Messages: 28
Location: Kentucky
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I think the thermostats on the CRD are actually made into the bracket so you have to buy the whole assembly, right?

'05 Liberty CRD Limited
Factory Off-Road Package
Daystar spacer lift/Conduit washers
Skyjacker H7088s in the rear
Renegade wheels
255/70-16 General Grabber AT2s
GDE HOT Tune
EHM
No clutch fan
"Euro" TC
Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Yes, as far as I can tell. The thermostat is inside a valve body which is pressed and crimped together. It is external to the engine and bolted to the head right behind the viscous heater. I think it is a double acting valve, but want to take one apart to make sure. Once apart, I'm sure it will be toast. There are other manufacturers that use external thermostats, which could be adapted to the Jeep. Space may be the biggest challange.
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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Well, found this inline thermostat.

http://www.meziere.com/ps-572-541-wn0072.aspx

I would like to keep the OEM system intact and add this downsteam (between OEM thermostat and radiator). The only problem is, I can't find any info regarding coolant circulation for the CRD. Must be since the EGR uses coolant, it's all considered emmissions and the manual is tight lipped. If the original thermostat is double acting, and begins closeing the bypass at 165*, I don't want to cause overpressure when the inline doesn't begin opening until 195*. I thought I would drill the new t-stat to allow some bypass, mainly to get current water temp to it. I assume the water pump is cetrifugal and can't over pressure. But I don't know. Any suggestions?
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GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
That is a nice alternative! The two t-stats inline will add some restriction, which will lead to a slightly higher head pressure and less flow to the radiator. The bypass, heater core, EGR cooling, oil cooling may see a significant increase in flow. The water pump should be fine, just a little more torque load on the engine, which may/not be noticeable in mpg. This would not be good if the CRD will be pulling a trailer up Davis Dam on a 100 F day, the system is already at capacity and the loss of flow to the radiator would cause a significant decrease in vehicle performance. All other conditions should be fine. Have you priced a replacement OEM thermostat, just for comparison?
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flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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GDE, why couldn't you just remove the old tstat, from the housing, if it can be done with out damage? The only thing, I don't like about the in-line tstat, is the back pressure against the hose between the engine and the in-line housing. It looks like it would be nice to put any tstat you want on the Jeep though.

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 357
Location: Southeast Michigan
The problem is the housing was never designed to be serviceable. It is made of die cast aluminum with the thermostat sandwiched between the top and bottom housing. The lower housing is pressed into the lip of the upper housing. This must be pryed apart to remove the thermostat and usually leads into cracking the housing or something so it will not reseal properly. 3 bolts and a gasket would be a dream for the CRD.
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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I,m afraid to price an OEM replacement and assume only 80*C would be available since this is part of the EGR system. Your right, I wouldn't want to tow with this setup. The Jeep is only used to haul my butt around the flat lands of Michigan. If there is too much restriction, I can drill more holes, although that may defeat optimum temps in winter.

I too, am concerned about increased pressure in the hose considering this is already a pressurized system. I see they also make a unit with a threaded inlet. It would be cool if the outlet of the original tstat could be threaded and the inline fitted to it. I still would like to know the inner workings of the original before I do anything.
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flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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GreenDieselEngineering wrote:The problem is the housing was never designed to be serviceable. It is made of die cast aluminum with the thermostat sandwiched between the top and bottom housing. The lower housing is pressed into the lip of the upper housing. This must be pryed apart to remove the thermostat and usually leads into cracking the housing or something so it will not reseal properly. 3 bolts and a gasket would be a dream for the CRD.


I have never seen the CRD tstat assy. There is no way to break the tstat out of there with out breaking the housing I assume? Another thought, if you keep the in-line tstat close to the engine with a metal sleeve over the hose, maybe that would prevent pressure swelling?

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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Dave wrote:I,m afraid to price an OEM replacement and assume only 80*C would be available since this is part of the EGR system. Your right, I wouldn't want to tow with this setup. The Jeep is only used to haul my butt around the flat lands of Michigan. If there is too much restriction, I can drill more holes, although that may defeat optimum temps in winter.

I too, am concerned about increased pressure in the hose considering this is already a pressurized system. I see they also make a unit with a threaded inlet. It would be cool if the outlet of the original tstat could be threaded and the inline fitted to it. I still would like to know the inner workings of the original before I do anything.


Dave, is the upper radiator hose on our CRD's 1 1/2". Just wondering, since you posted that size for the tstat housing?

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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"Dave, is the upper radiator hose on our CRD's 1 1/2". Just wondering, since you posted that size for the tstat housing?"

I only held a tape measure up and eyeballed it. 1 1/2" looks close, but I did not remove the hose and measure directly. If I decide to do anything, I'll measure it more accurately and let you know.
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Dave

Joined: 26/01/2010 13:56:59
Messages: 27
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The upper radiator hose is 1 1/2" ID (1.47")
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