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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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Past Eco and Hot tune owner now running their Turbo kit.

First, overall impression is very positive.

Highlights
1. Extremely strong acceleration up to about 45, and still impressive up to 70 (haven’t gone faster than that yet). Significantly stronger feeling than Hot tune performance.
2. Steady state fuel efficiency appears to be at least as good as Eco and Hot tunes. This morning’s commute to work showed an EVIC reading of 30.1 mpg. Comparing similar environmental conditions in the past (wind speed/direction, air temp, etc.) shows it might be slightly better. However, I have no comparison data on the accuracy of the turbo tune EVIC results and hand calculated results.
3. Great customer support. There were some issues that arose during the installation process but GDE provided very fast and helpful directions.

One thing I’d like to see improved is a few areas in the instructions didn’t correspond correctly with the actual kit parts. This caused some confusion and delay but I was kind of expecting this being one of the first customers to do the install.

As far as the install process goes . . . I would not recommend tackling this yourself unless you have a good supply of tools and some experience doing similar type mechanical things. There are a lot of places that would be easy to really mess things up. It took me about 14-16 hrs to do the install. I’ve never pulled/installed a turbo before so I went slow and deliberate and was likely slower than a lot of other people might be. I started doing the removal process the day after I sent my ECU and check to GDE for the kit. Spent 2-3 hrs a night doing the removal process until the kit arrived. I’d recommend breaking this process up like I did as it is incredibly tedious, hand cramping work getting some of those bolts and nuts loose. My goodness I’m glad that process is over.

I’ll try to post some follow up results. Got a co-worker who recently got a G-Tech device I might try to borrow to record 0-60 times and maybe some hp/tq plots. Or I might spring for a dyno run at the local shop. I unfortunately won’t have any “before” data to compare the Hot tune to the Turbo kit. I was kind of stretching my discretionary budget the way it was to get the kit and didn’t spring for a dyno run with the Hot tune . . .

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
Offline
First fillup post turbo kit. EVIC showed 30.2 and hand calculated number was 29.4 mpg. I don't like to base results on one fillup, but it's the best mpg I've had since last fall by a significant margin. This was typical back & forth to work driving for me, although the weather has been warming up.

GDE, outstanding job. Improved power/torque and, it appears, efficiency.

Oh, did you tweak the EVIC accuracy on my tune compared to the HOT? This was closer to hand calculated numbers than typical . . .

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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One thing I'd like to add about the turbo to manifold bolts. The GDE instructions said to use a 13mm. I "felt" like I was about to round the heads off on the 2nd bolt I was removing so I switched to a 1/2 inch instead. I don't know if my 06 is different than normal, but here's a look at the size of these bolts as measured with my micrometer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4465051483/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4465827458/

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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Good luck with that new Turbo kit. I hope you are enjoying it

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
Offline
flman wrote:Good luck with that new Turbo kit. I hope you are enjoying it


Thanks, I am.

I was doing some 0-60 runs this afternoon. I was launching in 2wd and the wheels would lite up for an instant and then the traction control light would start flashing and start breaking the wheels to keep them from spinning . . . I still managed (just using a stop watch and the speedometer so it's not real precise) 8.4-8.7 sec times with a full tank of D2, the spare tire, and some groceries. Air temps were 54F and some pretty good cross wind (and did it multiple times in both directions of the road so the time range above didn't favor one direction in case it wasn't as flat as it looked).

Is there a way to turn off the traction control? Would it be better to launch in full time 4wd or would that put the front differential in jeopardy as I've read it's kind of weak and if you hop the front wheels there's a good chance of things breaking . . .

Also, I originally had a "whoosh" sound that would start at high boost levels which appeared to come from the new downpipe/exhaust junction. I didn't weld that interface but used a clamp. This morning I used a bigger wrench and tightened the clamp some more and the "whoosh" was gone on this afternoons full fuel runs.

Oh, another question: I'm planning to put this on a superflow dyno next week but I'm not sure how to keep the TC locked up at lower rpm's. I was messing around with that this afternoon with the overdrive off and starting at ~1700 rpm in 3rd (1:1) lockup but if I give it full fuel it just unlocks. I can do it where it's not full fuel and it stays locked but that won't let the dyno show the full power/torque of the GDE turbo kit. Any suggestions on how to keep the TC locked up during a chassis dyno run?

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
flman
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Joined: 28/08/2009 19:59:32
Messages: 74
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Just push that little ESP button on the steering column, and the traction control icon will illuminate, indicating that it is off.

Still Burnin Oil since 1992!
2010 John Deere 2305 3 cylinder Yanmar
GDE HOT!! Tuned 2006 CRD LTD Silver, Euro TC, GDE Tuned TCM, B&M Trans drain kit
GDE ECO Tuned 2006 CRD Sport Black, B&M Trans drain kit, Front and rear hooks, Full Skids
GDE ECO Tuned 2005 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
2010 MB 2500 Sprinter Van
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
Offline
flman wrote:Just push that little ESP button on the steering column, and the traction control icon will illuminate, indicating that it is off.


I'll have to give that a try. I thought that ESP button just turned off a portion of the ESP but left the Traction Control still operational. This is from a web bookmark I had which described all these "systems":

What do all these ABS, ROM, ESP, BA and TC letters mean to you? The ABS senses when a tire/wheel is locked up and releases the brake pressure to that tire/wheel to give you optimum braking and steering control in a panic situation. ROM senses when a tire/wheel is lifting and applies braking forces to the other tires/wheels to compensate and lessen the chance of a Rollover. ESP senses "yaw" and adjusts power and or braking. Basically it compares the attitude of your vehicle to the steering input and keeps your vehicle stable during understeer or oversteer situations. BA automatically adds brake pressure near the end of a stop to decrease braking distance. TC does two things. On Road it senses tire spin and applies braking pressure to stop uncontrolled tire spin. Off Road this also acts like a traction device and directs more power to the tires/wheels that have traction to keep you moving in loose conditions. You do have the options to "turn off" the ESP but the other functions still operate normally.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
GreenDieselEngineering
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Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 350
Location: Southeast Michigan
Using 3rd gear is the best for performing dyno runs, however you will still have to roll-on the pedal smoothly. If it unlocks you will just have to go with less pedal on the next run. There is no way to prevent it from unlocking if you go full throttle at a fast pace.

Turning the ESP off will help make it easier to launch the vehicle, but if there is a lot of wheel spin it will still manage torque a bit. The "ESP off" does not actually turn the system off, but allows more tire spin before engaging. Launching in 4WD will definitely help reduce the spin and should not hurt anything in the driveline.
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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GreenDieselEngineering wrote:Launching in 4WD will definitely help reduce the spin and should not hurt anything in the driveline.


Got my co-workers G-Tech Pro RR. Just did some messing around with it. I "need" one of these things

Back to the same place/location and launched in 2wd, ESP off, and still have significant ABS modulation to control wheel spin. The G-tech reported the following:

60' 2.345 s
330' 6.744 s
1/8 ml 10.48 @ 64.63 mph (I lifted off the fuel just after 60 mph as the speed limit is 55)
0-60mph 8.414 sec (right in line with my stop watch results from a few days ago)

Then I did the full time 4wd launches. First one is with just a bit of boost buildup with the brake applied before launch. Still some initial wheel spinning.

60' 2.216 s
330' 6.452 s
1/8 ml 10.122 s @ 66.94 mph (again lifted out just after crossing 60)
0-60mph 7.816 sec

Re-did the run with more boost buildup before launch. Initial wheel spin . . .

60' 2.162 s
330' 6.373 s
1/8 ml 10.022 s @ 66.33 mph (again lifted out just after crossing 60)
0-60mph 7.656 sec

Additional non-stock items include: I've got 235/75R16 General Grabber HTS tires, almost a full tank of fuel, a Discoverer ATR 215/85R16 spare tire (heavy), V6 airbox mod, Magnaflow mufller, stanadyne FM100 with a 5um filter, lift pump.

Ambient conditions: Air temp was 62F and elevation is ~ 800 ft.

Color me impressed with GDE's turbo kit.


2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
GreenDieselEngineering
[Avatar]

Joined: 10/07/2009 07:25:47
Messages: 350
Location: Southeast Michigan
Well, those number are phenomenal! You are not the average customer and obviously like to test the vehicle to the max. The fact that nothing broke in the driveline while doing aggressive brake torque lauches is a testament to the KJ hardware. On a down note, your fuel economy on this tank might not be very good, but a 7.6sec 0-60 more than makes up for that. Thanks for the continued feedback. GDE
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TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
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GreenDieselEngineering wrote:The fact that nothing broke in the driveline while doing aggressive brake torque lauches is a testament to the KJ hardware.


I thought after 2 of these launches I should stop whilst I was ahead. I don't anticipate doing this very often, but it's good to know what its capable of doing if needed.


GreenDieselEngineering wrote:On a down note, your fuel economy on this tank might not be very good, but a 7.6sec 0-60 more than makes up for that. Thanks for the continued feedback. GDE


I predict you are correct. And thanks again for your support of the Liberty CRD community.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
Offline
Bought my own G-Tech Pro RR. It arrived today and . . . I couldn't resist. Got the rpm's to sync up with my vehicle.

Back to the same place. Air temp was 76 today. I removed the spare tire this time and the tank was down to ~2/3. I filled up with 8.7 gallons after these runs. I estimated the total weight at 4800 lbs based on some things I've read from others who have weighed their vehicles. I've got heavier wheels than stock, a heavy tow hitch, etc. I think I'm close but it could be off +/- 100 lbs.

I re-did the full time 4wd launch but with a little less brake launch than both previous runs due to concern over excessive forces on the drivetrain. I didn't hear any tires break loose this time.

60' 2.171
330' 6.371
1/8 ml 9.974 @ 69.20 mph (kept the fuel going all the way this time)
0-60mph 7.518 sec

The G-Tech recorded a hp of 154.7 at 3627 rpm and max tq of 244.3 ft-lbs at 3306 (the torque converter never locked and spun up so fast it didn't really record any rpm's below 3300 rpm.

So then I decided I would try to do a full 1/4 mile run with the OD off button to see what that would do. I didn't do 4wd as I'm not sure what safe speeds are with all that stuff engaged and I was pretty sure I'd be going pretty fast . . .

I got on the interstate, pulled over on the median and waited for a good, long gap to launch. 2wd with ESP on and a fair bit of brake launch. Lots of tire chirping and traction control lights flickering. Horrible launch. But I'm not going to try that again anytime soon because as I was slowing down from almost 100 (it was at a 100 faster than I anticipated) I saw flashing lights ahead in the distance. SHAZAM! I had visions of loosing my license . . . fortunately it was a cop who had already pulled over a car going in the opposite direction. I didn't look to see if he also had a G-Tech suction cupped to his windshield . . .

60' 2.551 (horrible, a full 0.4 sec worse than the previous 4wd launches and 0.2 worse than the previos 2wd launch with ESP off)
330' 6.798 (also significantly worse than the previous 4wd launch)
1/8 ml 10.298 @ 72.28 mph (time is still slower but the speed is much faster )
0-60mph 7.626 sec
1/4 ml 15.702 @ 92.57 mph

The G-Tech recorded a hp of 201.7 at 3644 rpm and max tq of 330.5 ft-lbs at 3027. The lower rpm for the torque compared to the previous run appears to have occurred due to the TC locking up in 3rd and dragging the rpm's down further than with the TC unlocked.

It appears that a full time 4wd launch with the OD off would give the optimum results, but I'm gonna be A LOT more careful next time I do something stupid like this. Here, hold my beer.

P.S. Even with all these full fuel runs hand calculated mpg's came in at 25.2.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
Offline
Just updating things. The GDE turbo kit is still running exceptionally well. Now that most of the road construction is done on my normal back and forth to work route, using the GDE TCM, and re-addressed the dragging brake issue again, I've broke 30 mpg for 2 fillups in a row. Was never able to do this with the eco or hot tunes. Some of it may be the TCM, but the vast majority of my route doesn't take advantage of the TCM capabilities.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
mngoat

Joined: 16/12/2009 12:46:19
Messages: 9
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TDIwyse wrote:Just updating things. The GDE turbo kit is still running exceptionally well. Now that most of the road construction is done on my normal back and forth to work route, using the GDE TCM, and re-addressed the dragging brake issue again, I've broke 30 mpg for 2 fillups in a row. Was never able to do this with the eco or hot tunes. Some of it may be the TCM, but the vast majority of my route doesn't take advantage of the TCM capabilities.




when you mention dragging brake issue, what problem did you have? I've been having trouble with my front brakes hanging(not real bad) have swapped out calipers, slidder pins, shimmed out the master with no avail. Also have pulled the fuses on the abs system and still the same. I can drive around for a bit, pull the jeep into garage, jack up front end and both front tires are really stiff. Let them sit for a bit and the get better by themselves after 15-20 minutes.
TDIwyse

Joined: 01/10/2009 06:58:20
Messages: 54
Offline
My front rotors would be hot even when I didn't use the breaks (I have a 6 mile stretch of county road without a stop sign/light and I can usually go without hitting the brakes for this whole distance, then coast into the gravel road, then the drive, then into my garage with only using the brake pedal at the last instant to keep from going through the garage wall). The front rotors would be too hot to touch. The rear ones would be slightly warm. Jacking up the jeep and spinning the front wheels would show what I consider to be too much drag as well. I had this issue many months ago and kind of fixed it for awhile by doing some brake line bleeding and lubricating things. This last time I couldn't make it any better. Then I swapped out brake lines and used fresh fluid again. No improvement. Then I put new front brake pads in (the old ones were getting thin). After I compressed the brake caliper for the new pads everything in the front loosened up. No more hot front rotors. However, now the rear ones get warmer than they used to be before messing with the front calipers. Not quite sure what changed, but it seems to coast bit better now. And my mpg's went up a tad. Last 4 fillups now have been between 30 and 31 mpg's.

2006 Liberty Limited CRD
2004 Ram Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins
2001 VW Jetta TDI
1990 YJ with 2006 Cummins B3.3T
 
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