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Messages posted by: TDIwyse
Forum Index » Profile for TDIwyse » Messages posted by TDIwyse
Past Eco and Hot tune owner now running their Turbo kit.

First, overall impression is very positive.

1. Extremely strong acceleration up to about 45, and still impressive up to 70 (haven’t gone faster than that yet). Significantly stronger feeling than Hot tune performance.
2. Steady state fuel efficiency appears to be at least as good as Eco and Hot tunes. This morning’s commute to work showed an EVIC reading of 30.1 mpg. Comparing similar environmental conditions in the past (wind speed/direction, air temp, etc.) shows it might be slightly better. However, I have no comparison data on the accuracy of the turbo tune EVIC results and hand calculated results.
3. Great customer support. There were some issues that arose during the installation process but GDE provided very fast and helpful directions.

One thing I’d like to see improved is a few areas in the instructions didn’t correspond correctly with the actual kit parts. This caused some confusion and delay but I was kind of expecting this being one of the first customers to do the install.

As far as the install process goes . . . I would not recommend tackling this yourself unless you have a good supply of tools and some experience doing similar type mechanical things. There are a lot of places that would be easy to really mess things up. It took me about 14-16 hrs to do the install. I’ve never pulled/installed a turbo before so I went slow and deliberate and was likely slower than a lot of other people might be. I started doing the removal process the day after I sent my ECU and check to GDE for the kit. Spent 2-3 hrs a night doing the removal process until the kit arrived. I’d recommend breaking this process up like I did as it is incredibly tedious, hand cramping work getting some of those bolts and nuts loose. My goodness I’m glad that process is over.

I’ll try to post some follow up results. Got a co-worker who recently got a G-Tech device I might try to borrow to record 0-60 times and maybe some hp/tq plots. Or I might spring for a dyno run at the local shop. I unfortunately won’t have any “before” data to compare the Hot tune to the Turbo kit. I was kind of stretching my discretionary budget the way it was to get the kit and didn’t spring for a dyno run with the Hot tune . . .
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:They are difficult to access and tend to shear the exhaust manifold studs if seized. We include 4 new studs with the kit...just in case.

Just curious . . . if one shear the studs in the exhaust manifold how do you get the remaining part of the stud out? Is this a drill and re-tap kind of effort? Can it be done with the manifold on the engine or do you have to remove the manifold?

My CRD didn't come with an EVIC when I purchased it used last August. I wired in an EVIC from an old Grand Cherokee last November which was after I already had your Eco tune. Then I changed to the Hot tune. Next week I will likely contact you about your turbo kit if I can get those turbo housing bolts to break loose . . .

The only other vehicle I own with a computer mpg display is my 2004 Ram Cummins. In the winter it is usually optimistic, but in the summer it's pessimistic. Until I see how your present tweak works in the summer I'm not sure if I would want it changed.

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:How does the accuracy of the EVIC now compare with the EVIC when stock? Based on your measurements we could maybe tweak it a little more. Would you be interested in a replacement ecu with a new setting to test?
This morning the temp was 41, SE wind at 6mph (head wind), wet roads but still pulled down a 29.7 according to the EVIC. Yesterday without some of this new grill/intake blocking stuff the temp was 35, SE wind at 10mph (headwind), wet roads gave a 28.2 according to the EVIC.
If someone where to have a CRD with consistently stubborn siezed bolts/nuts/fasteners in every place they have ever tried to remove something . . . where would you expect the most troublesome item(s) in this process to be located? I'd like to "test" these to see how much trouble I might be getting myself into . . .
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:Does anyone have additional tank and EVIC fuel economy numbers? We would like to verify the accuracy of the EVIC tune that was implemented late October. We are hoping the trends point to having the EVIC a little closer to reality. Thanks for the feedback.

Since getting the new EVIC cal on the HOT tune back in January these are the tanks (plus 2 data points I thought were interesting) where I've left the EVIC alone from one fill to the next.

date EVIC HandCal

1/12/10 23.1 21.7
1/22/10 xx 21.9
1/28/10 26.0 23.9 * Switched from Cooper Discover ATR 215/85R16 to General Grabber HTS 235/75R16
2/3/10 25.1 24.4
2/6/10 27.8 25.8
2/11/10 26.0 24.0
2/16/10 28.2 24.9
3/3/10 xx 27.8 * Started blocking the cold air intake
3/7/10 30.1 27.9 * Continued blocking the cold air intake

The EVIC is much more accurate than the previous ECO tune results. It's still optimistic, but somewhat consistent in its optimism.
I used my "outdoor" thermometer to measure the temp of the air going into the air box by putting the probe down in side there. Around town it showed a fairly descent increase above ambient, but at 55-60 it really was only about 4-5 F above ambient. I was a little surprised at that.

Since I recently got a set of Samco's I had the old CAC hoses sitting around. I just used the old CAC hose from the driver side to redneck up a snorkel that draws air for the intake over by the engine cover/radiator fan shroud. According to a test run tonight this has increased the intake temp above ambient to about 17-20 F at 55-60 after the radiator heats up. It was kind of neat to see this temp jump from ~4F to ~20F above ambient when the engine got up to temp. I've also added a block off to the lower radiator grill opening (along with the upper radiator opening I've been running). The weather isn't cooperating due to a low pressure system bringing in rain and S/SE winds so I'm not sure if I'll get a good controlled comparison of whether or not this does anything. Warmer temps are coming as well so this experiment might get put on hold until next winter. . .
Blocking the air intake so it draws warmer air seems to have had a more dramatic impact on mpg than removing the rad fan. Last fill up was 27.8 mpg hand calculated which is by far the best its been for a long time. Although road conditions are better and the afternoon post-work temps are getting warmer so there are some variables I'm not controlling properly.

I've got the V6 airbox mod so to block the "cold air" I removed the snorkle section that goes up to the space by the hood and blocked that area with some foam water pipe insulation. Also used the insulation to block a section by the side of the radiator in that area that allowed air to enter. Morning commute mpg's shown below are not significantly higher than previously recorded for these types of temps, but the return home mpgs and overall mpgs are much better. What is encouraging is the last two readings that had less optimum wind conditions for the commute but still held on to good #'s.

I also did some more playing with the viscous heater relay in place (all data below has the relay in) and with GDE's new algorithm for shutting it off sooner I am not seeing much of a difference in mpgs . . . which is a good thing so I'll keep it in place from now on.

Date Air Temp Wind spd Wind dir EVIC mpg* Vehicle Condition

3/1/2010 25 F 8 mph NW 29.7mpg No fan, VH relay, blocked intake, coolant heater plugged in 2 hrs before commute.
3/2/2010 14 F 10 mph NW 29.5mpg No fan, VH relay, blocked intake, coolant heater plugged in for 2 hrs before commute.
3/3/2010 11 F 10 mph NW 29.5mpg No fan, VH relay, blocked intake, coolant heater plugged in for 2 hrs before commute.
3/4/2010 11 F 5 mph NW 29.7mpg Re-fuel, No fan, VH relay, blocked intake, coolant heater plugged in for 2 hrs.
3/5/2010 17 F 5 mph NE 29.6mpg No fan, VH relay, blocked intake, coolant heater plugged in for 2 hrs before commute.

* Morning commute direction is primarily SE
Just curious how much resistance there should be when holding the hub in place and spinning the fan blades. Mine seems to have significant drag when doing this, but I have nothing to compare it to.

Removing/installing the fan would sure be a lot easier/faster if the top portion of the shroud could be simply clipped/snapped in place and slid out to allow for the fan to be removed/installed as opposed to all the fussing around of sliding up the entire shroud structure.
Weather is providing some good variable control. This morning 0F and 8 mph NW winds. Same procedure/configuration as above yielded 27.2 mpg on EVIC. Seems like my cliff happens somewhere between 0 and +15F.

Could my air intake sensor be getting saturated below ~15F so it doesn't continue to provide correct data to the ECM for use in making timing of injection calculations correctly? I assume the ECM advances the timing as air temps go down . . .
I posted this over on lost as well . . .



Got some lab data back on the stator material.


This is a TGA plot. It shows the weight % of the sample, as well as the derivative, of material decomposition across temp. There is essentially no change up to 100 C (212 F). This is likely due to the material alreading being exposed to temps up to this point and the volatile components where already out-gassed. Rapid decomposition didn't start occuring until above 288 C (550 F).

There's also a DSC plot over multiple runs up to 250 C (482 F) that I can upload if there's interest.

All in all it seems like the material composition of the stator should be suitable for use in an automotive application as I don't think there's many situations where it would exceed 500 F.
If you could find a way to improve the cold weather efficiency (<15F ambient temp) where I see a big drop in mpg's I'd be excited about that. Or if you could get the torque converter to lock for 2nd as well as 3rd when in OD Off mode that would be cool.
It was warming up a little last week and into the weekend. But after Monday it started getting cold again. My mileage was really going up and I had removed the mechanical fan (following GDE's lead) to try and improve mpg's.

Filled up and started tracking mileage again. The truck stop I fill up at says they sell straight #2 (they say that's what the truckers want since it doesn't impact their mpg's as much as blended fuel) that is only guaranteed to not gel down to 0F and strongly recommends antigel additive, which I use. I've done some test on their fuel and without additive it did gel at about -5F.

Using the EVIC for mpg data on my 14 mile commute shows some interesting data on mpg vs temp. This data is for the exact same fuel/vehicle configuration (it was plugged in for 1.5 hrs before starting both times) and identical wind conditions (verified from www.wunderground.com archived data). The only real difference is ambient temp.

Monday morning commute the temp was ~15F and there was an 8mph NW tailwind. EVIC recorded 29.5 for the entire trip into work (from garage to parking spot). This wouldn't be much different than hand calc results from last Fall when things were much warmer, but many aspects of the vehicle are different. Today the outside temp was ~ -4F and there was an 8 mph NW tailwind. EVIC recorded 27.1.

Since getting the HOT tune with the recalibrated EVIC tweak from GDE the EVIC has been consistently accurate to within ~4-7% of hand calculated results (consistently optimistic, but consistent nonetheless) when I leave the EVIC alone between fillups. So it appears there is steep drop off in efficiency (roughly a 9% reduction) on my vehicle due solely to ambient temps when they approach 0F.

Does it make sense that there's that sharp of a drop off due to temp?

After bending a couple screwdrivers and numerous heating/soaking cycles I red-necked a home made adjustable spanner wrench to fit the two holes in the pulley to keep it from rotating. That did the trick. You were not joking about how that step could add some serious time to the project . . .

I got the fan out by sliding the shroud up, but it wasn't a real smooth operation -- lots of interference. To get the fan out I had to raise the shroud high enough so that the side support structures where the screws go for attachment caused some pretty good rubbing with the radiator hose on the passenger side and another hose of the driver side. Did you find a better way to finesse the shroud up, and fan out, without rubbing on those areas?

Initial EVIC based results shows some good upward trends in mpg results.

I'm fairly confident that the previous owner of this liberty lived by the sea, commuted to work through the sea, and then washed the vehicle with sea water upon returning home at night.

I've bent up a tire iron the first time I rotated tires due to lug nuts being frozen, ripped the heads off of two of the skid plate bolts and had to drill out the bolts so I could change the front diff fluid, and had to re-tap the frame holes to bolt the tow hitch I added into place. Grrrrrrr.

So I bought a longer tool, have a metal pipe extension on it as well so it's now 32 inches long, using a screw driver to keep the bolt from free spinning and have been whacking away for quite some time over the last several nights while continuously soaking with anti seize. No dice.

So my question is: Can I heat that bolt without damaging the fan coupling or anything else in that area? Was thinking propane torch or what's worked for me in the past on really stubborn stuff is to use my stick welder and just weld on the bolt to apply intense localized heat (and knock off the material with a hammer afterwards). That's worked for times when the propane wasn't hot enough.
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